Thursday, June 30, 2011

The Peace Talks - Day One

The first day of the great Incarna Peace Talks is over. I will not attempt to go into incredibly great detail in this posting; I just want to give a broad overview and offer some impressions. To be honest, I'm exhausted and only have a few minutes before dinner.

I want to start by saying that everyone at CCP, and in particular CCP Zulu, was very open and frank about their opinions, and provided any information CSM requested. This was very useful.

In the morning, we discussed issues regarding the rollout of Incarna and the Captain's Quarters. Just about everything people have been bitching about and then some was discussed in detail -- melting video cards, multiboxing, lighting, the death of ship spinning, just to name a few.

CCP started this meeting by saying something incredibly smart. It gave me hope that the entire summit would be a success, but you will have to wait to find out what it was. Suffer, bitches.

Then, after lunch, we spent over 3 hours discussing the Noble Exchange rollout and virtual goods pricing. This was a very passionate session, to say the least.

CSM got a complete rundown on the overall CCP vanity goods strategy, and it became obvious how a series of mistakes and communications breakdowns -- both internal at CCP, to CSM, and in their messaging to you (and lack thereof) -- resulted in the NEX rollout debacle.

There should be a devblog coming out in the very near future that explains CCP's strategy, puts things into context, and hopefully starts healing this self-inflicted wound. Anyone can shoot themselves in the foot, or the ass, but in this case CCP managed to do both with one shot, which takes real skill.

The day ended with some work-in-progress demos of the other CQs and an establishment. Some nice work, and the Gallente CQ is the best CQ IMHO.

Tomorrow, we will tackle the big question: Does CCP have plans to release game-affecting virtual goods (aka "gold ammo")?

Suggestion of the day: adding a "Just Say NO to Virtual Goods" t-shirt to the Noble Exchange, priced higher than a monocle. Is CCP fearless enough to do it?


  1. I like that last bit.

    I'm hopeful, but I still have a healthy bit of caution.

    Good luck tomorrow.
    "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more..."

  2. Are CQs going to be based on the race of the station, or the race of the toon? Will there be the ability to "lock in" a CQ if you prefer a particular type?

  3. We wait and we wait and we wait. I hope we don't have to wait for results as long as we are waiting for minutes of last summit :)

    But alas, I keep my fingers crossed for tomorrows debate :)

  4. Hello there,

    Thank you for keeping us updated. It's too bad that there is so much NDA going on.

    I don't see why CCP keeps some of this stuff under wraps. Why not let you guys talk about a few of these things, like the details of the return of ship spinning or something like it? What's the harm? Frustrating on this end of things.

    Anyway... You and The Mittens both seem to be optimistic so far, so it can't be all bad. Eagerly looking forward to The Big Question tomorrow and I hope that the NDA doesn't prevent you from giving us a simple "Yes" or "No".


  5. I would totally buy that t-shirt :P

  6. Great run down and very positive which is nice to hear!

  7. So, as expected, it's all NDA-All-The-Time. You won't tell the players anything beyond "oh it's all ok", which is exactly what the CSM said last meeting.

  8. It is simply unreasonable to expect any of the CSM to give out detailed bullet point lists of what was discussed and agreed to mere hours after the end of a session. Especially when you consider that we're all exhausted and sleep-deprived.

    A lot of the rage was generated by ill-considered messaging by CCP. I won't repeat that error. I will work closely with the other members of the CSM to give you as much detail as we can, as soon as we can. And the only kind of stuff that will be NDA will be some of the hard number we received.

    If you can't wait a couple of days for proper answers to the big questions, then it is likely that nothing I can tell you will satisfy you.

  9. You really need to get CCP to un-NDA as much as possible of the discussion that took place, because at this point many players find it hard to just take even CSM opinions as fact.

  10. >>> Suffer, bitches.

    I know you're trying to add a bit of levity, perhaps even a bit of the CCP charisma has rubbed off on you after a day in the trenches with them but I hope you see how inflammatory this little comment is ?

    We've had to put up with nearly a week of blackout from CCP after they make a number of bumbling and disrespectful 'blogs and posts.

    I had hoped that the CSM would be going with the clear message that this community is desperate for absolute crystal clarity.

    You seem to be a good man Trebor, I listed to the whole podcast on EVE radio and you struck me as passionate and driven; Please don't disrespect the player-base any more.

  11. Either they were going to, or they were not going to. HOW F'N hard is that to answer? YES or NO? How can that possibly be NDA? We aren't asking EXACTLY WHAT they were going to sell, just IF they were intending to sell non-vanity stuff. Apparently its NDA to say yes or no. SO I, AND MANY OTHERS, WILL TAKE THAT SILENCE AS A YES. Or more likely, as buying time to word the yes answer without actually saying yes, perhaps?

  12. Sounds promising thanks for keeping us up to date with events.

    Myself and a friend will not hesitate to resub (as we love the game can't deny that it's the best Scifi MMO out there) should the answer to 'Does CCP have plans to release game-affecting virtual goods (aka "gold ammo")?' be a definite no never going to happen.

    Personally I don't mind how much CCP wish to charge for the vanity items for all I care they can charge $600 for the monocle I would still play, my decision rests entirely on that one important question.

    I do miss my spiny ship as well though. I would much rather we were given the option to leave our pods than be thrown automatically into CQ sometimes I just want to dock and then undock quickly.

    Anyway here is hoping that CCP remain true to their word what ever they decide.

  13. if ccp releases the t-shirt at a higher price i will get it asap........

  14. Trebor, Something to keep in mind mate it is not just this latest release that has caused everyone to jump up in arms it is the sum of all its parts.

    Making sure that the next 3 releases for EVE are not going to be CQ/WiS iterations are just as much a concern as anything else.

    People want previously deployed features reworked/fixed/enhanced.

  15. I love how they start with issues then end up with distraction of what cool "new" stuff they are doing.

    Yeah the "new" stuff they said was gonna be ready on release...

    In my opinion its the biggest stall tactic they can do, and now they have played their cards. They need to stop avoiding the elephant in the room, and should have addressed it first. To me, having avoided it, means that they are trying to see how they can break it to you in a way you would support... Don't fall into that trap. It will start with something thats insignificant, and then they will expand on it!!!!

  16. @russc well, I can't speak for the rest of the community, but this small part of it thinks that you, russc, don't have a sense of humour.

    Half the problem has been the community taking things FAR too seriously and reacting with knee-jerk outrage to the faintest hint of any comment that wasn't entirely straight-laced. Lighten the hell up.

    @Belloche > Trebor just freaking SAID that they'll be asking the "non-vanity items Y/N?" question TOMORROW. It's totally unrealistic to expect him to blog about CCP answer to a question that the CSM haven't even asked them yet.

  17. So they wined and dined you, and you're not allowed to tell us anything they said.

    Boy, that bodes well.

  18. Keep the pressure on - no non-vanity MT goods _ever_. Thanks for the update :-)

  19. Bring up that we shouldn't have to reshoot our portrait every time we change our clothes... PLEASE!

  20. Please... Bring up that we shouldn't have to reshoot our portrait every time we change our clothes.. (and sorry if this double posted, blogger kinda freaked out on me)

  21. Want to buy an honest and straight forward posting about the days events, ala Mittani's updates. Seriously, when one CSM gives a realistic view and you give a flowery one, it makes you sound like a shill. Get off your ass and represent the interests of your constituency rather than maintaining your appearance to CCP.

  22. "I know you're trying to add a bit of levity, perhaps even a bit of the CCP charisma has rubbed off on you after a day in the trenches with them but I hope you see how inflammatory this little comment is ?"

    You're right, my natural sense of humor went too far there. Which just goes to prove my point that messaging by a single sleep-deprived CSM is a bad idea.

    @Belloche: I understand your point, and agree with it. My impression leading up to the summit, from talking to people at CCP since this shitstorm began was that CCP has NO plans to do gold ammo. The whole point of friday is to get CCP to clearly explain their position, something CSM has been urging them to do from the get go.

  23. I don't doubt for one second that CCP has had no plans whatsoever for gold ammo leading up to this point, but discussion points are being tossed around and precedents are being set. But in the same vein if you had asked me one week ago I would have said absolutely that I had no plans whatsoever of unsubscribing all of my accounts.

    What I'm (we're ?) looking for is a commitment to the future. Now I doubt that CCP has the balls to stand up and make a commitment into perpetuity, but any sort of timeline to show that it won't just be lobbed in in the next expansion planning session would be reassuring.

  24. The problem with the CQ is that it's too resource intensive, giving two problems.

    1. Some people can't play at all. Grats CCP. you just upgraded out customers.
    2. It takes too long to load in comparison to the hanger.

    There are plenty of suggestions out there but these are the CQ problems that IMHO needs attention.

  25. QUOTE "The day ended with some work-in-progress demos of the other CQs and an establishment. Some nice work, and the Gallente CQ is the best CQ IMHO."/QUOTE
    Only 1 (one) establishment ? yeah hilmar loves the gallente, so the gallente should be the nicest .. LOL

  26. i like the CQ if people cant load it maby its time to move out of the stoneage..update you computers i did and love it as i can play moar games now.

    the bad part...CCP spend the whole day on pretty none issues well issues but that could have been left for day 2...the naim answer should have been

    are you going beyond vanity items [yes] or [no]

    and once that been answered it should have been reported right onto the EVE forums(screw twitter i hate it are people this lazy now that they cant even write half a page now shees.)

    but i dont trust CCP anymore, just the signs are there already...NDA..long talk..avoidance..evasion..stalling time.

    if you ask me then im 95% sure CCP will go beyond vanity items(in wich case ill quit playing eve and will never point any of my friend to it ever again(nor that i need to anyway they all hate the pay2win crap)

  27. So, here we are at Day 2, and NO NEWS. Apparently spending another 15 minutes to say YES or NO is too exhausting for our brave CSM's, who are now going out to dinner and get drunk on CCP's tab for a second night in a row. Not even a blog post this time.

    Tomorrow the CSM announces the Sudanenland will give over to CCP?

    Then again, it's been over 15 days since we were assumed by the CSM that the MAY meeting minutes were a day away from being released, so perhaps we will find out in October.

  28. I have a suggestion for CCP. They need to hire professional communications personnel. They need a public information team of skilled wordsmiths. Relying on developers and other IT people to provide clear, concise information to the player base is failing.


    This is a direct quote from a GM:

    "I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm afraid that so far it is a normal mechanism that a pilot can extend the aggression timer toward another one by shooting at containers or wreckage belonging to him. Thus we are not able to offer reimbursement."

    (No I'm not going to publish the name of the GM. My point is to ask that CCP educate its employees in communication or hire experts. I do not intend to embarrass the GM.)

    This GM could have been much more clear in the description. Suggested response: Pilot A is running a mission and has generated wrecks. Pilot B enters the mission and steals loot from Pilot A's wrecks. Pilot A shoots Pilot B causing the Aggression Timer to initiate between both parties. Pilot A docks in station to wait out the timer. Pilot B returns to the mission in a different ship and begins shooting Pilot A's wrecks in order to renew the Aggression Timer before the 15 minutes runs out. Pilot A returns an hour later to discover he/she is still flagged with an Aggression Timer to Pilot B. This is normal game mechanics.

    So, the GM response could have been more clear. The information should also be in the EVElopedia.

    Second example: "Please note that although we are discontinuing support of Shader Model 2 we will not actively block those cards from running the client. It is therefore possible that players with that hardware will be able to run EVE for some time afterward. We do, however, urge them to update their graphics cards as soon as possible."

    On June 21, 2011, computers without shader model 3 could not launch the client. Advance notice should have been provided to the community. It absolutely sucks out loud to sit down to play the game only to find out your computer won't even launch the client.

    Please, for the love of god, tell CCP to hire communications professionals to provide timely, accurate and clear information to the gaming community.

  29. Too bad CCP couldn't take everyone out for a drink. Some of you REALLY need it!